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anuyahong
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lost while wiring
29.07.2018 om 12:10:07
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Hello,
 
I got an recommendation for Mecktronics while looking for an analog train control. I've bought five pieces of the SSS control, but now I am lost.
I've let Google translate the documentation, but there are still a lot of questions left.      Treurig  Huilen
 
I want to control a simple circle with five blocks, no track switches or anything else.
 
1. I need two transformers (one AC and one DC)? How much power is recommended for 3-4 trains?
2. The connection is a mystery forme: with "2.1 Voeding" of the first document "componenten", I have two different ways, where the upper one has two DC and two AC transformer parts.
Then there are additional diodes circuits in both drawings: Where do I get these? There are nowhere mentioned in the texts.    Geschokt
3. The 3rd way (doc 2 "toespaaingen", 1.1 "standard opstelling" at page 5) has an additional start/stop switch?
 
I am really sorry, but that is very confusing for me Smiley
 
The two LED is only for indication, I can leave them out?
 
Besides that, the track itself is also unclear to me: 
4. I just do 4 interuptions on the plus track to get five blocks? But then the trains would stop pretty early at the beginning of each block and reach into the former block?
 
I am really sorry to bother with these kind of beginners questions. I am pretty sure, once you get the first step, that the systems is genious, very flexible and easy to expand. But so far I don't get the first step...
 
Thank you very much for any help in advance,    Smiley
Frank
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #1 - 19.08.2018 om 14:22:58
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Treurig
 
Is there really nobody able to help? My problems are pure beginner's stuff, so... ?
 
I am gratefully for any hint.
 
Thank you very much,
Frank
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #2 - 21.08.2018 om 21:55:41
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Hallo Frank,
 
I will try, but the language is the biggest problem I think.
 
This is for DC trains. If you have Marklin trains it is different.
1. AC transformer for STAB and SSS >1A, 14-18 Volt
     DC transformer for trains 10-14 Volt. You need to know the power of your trains. If you don't know, take 4A. 
Don't forget the 1k.
 
2. If you have only a circle, you can forget the upper transformer and forget the diodes circuits. You need this when you use "wissels" (track switches ?).
 
3. With the start/stop switch you can stop the train, but is not necessary and a train has to stop when there is a train in the next SSS block.
The "T" of the next SSS block must be connected to the a or b or c of the block above. Repeat this with each block.
The two LED you can leave out.
 
4. If you use 5 SSS blocks, you need 5 interuptions. Make the connectios as showed on (doc 2 "1.4 standaard baanvakken gelijkstroom" at page 8) the upper one. Forget the red and green LED.
 
Start with 1 train now. He now runs his laps without stopping.
Then place 2 trains. If the rear train gets too close to the front train, it will stop while the front train continues to drive.
 
Look at (doc 1 "3.1 Treinbesturing gelijkstroom" at page 11). With the potentio meters you control: "Max. snelh." Maximum speed, "START" speed of acceleration and "STOP" speed of braking. You will have to find an average for all your trains.
 
I hope it will be a little clearer for you now. Good luck.
Corné.
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #3 - 05.11.2018 om 18:03:02
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Hello,
 
thank you so much for your reply!  Smiley
After a long time i finally had a few hours to try it according to your description. At least I understand the basics now and could wire everything according to the plan!
 
Unfortunately it is not working, the trains will be recognized in each block (I did install the status LEDs) but they doesn't stop and simply running trough.     Huh Treurig
 
I checked the wiring but it should be ok, now I am running out of ideas. So if you (or anyone else) have an idea what could be wrong...   Smiley
 
Anyway: Thank you once more, I really appreciated your help, especially since it brought me through the "first steps".
 
Thank you very much,
Frank
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #4 - 06.11.2018 om 19:23:45
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Hello Frank,
 
Did you use the "STAB"
Did you use the 1k, it's necessary ?
The +12 volt of the "STAB" goes to the +12 volt of the "SSS" prints ?
 
See the attachment.
 
you can also try to place one diode between the locomotive transformer and the prints, from the + of the transformer (Rijspanning V) to the "V" of the "SSS" prints. 
 
If you place +12 volts DC from the "STAB" on the a, b or c of the "SSS" the train must stop !! 
 
If this does not work, can you make a drawing of your connections for me and place them on the site?
 
Good luck, and I'd love to hear from you.
 
Corné.
  

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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #5 - 07.11.2018 om 18:01:48
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Dear Corné,
 
thx once more for your help.
Regarding your reply:
 
1. Questions 1 - 3: yes, yes and yes   Smiley
 
2. test LED from loco transformer to "V" - nothing happens, but it's because it's the same cable - or do you mean to the minus of the SSS?
But I tested it with an multimeter already, there is about 9V incoming at the SSS from the loco transformer
 
3. here might be the real problem: that doesn't work. again, the status LED shows red for used block, but the train doesn't stop. it's the same at all three blocks. it looks like the SSS recognize the train, indicates this via status LED but doesn't reduce the voltage at exit "U" to the track.
 
I will make a drawing at the weekend, maybe I have done something wrong somewhere else.
 
Thank you very much so far,
Frank
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #6 - 07.11.2018 om 19:22:49
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Dear Frank,
 
The diode from the transformer to the "V" must be a 1N4001 diode and not an LED, but I will wait for your drawing and will first look at it.
And I'm not sure that this 1N4001 diode is the solution.
I once had a similar problem with a new locomotive from Piko.
The diode 1N4001 was the solution for me at that time.
 
Corné.
  

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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #7 - 09.11.2018 om 18:26:17
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Hello again,
 
the simple drawing was nearly as troublesome as the circuits - maybe I am too old for this...   Smiley
 
I made it quite simple - please imagine the connections between plus, minus and double plus from the transformers and each of the corresponding SSS connectors. To include these lines would have made the drawing confusing. I also left out the status LED.
 
The circuits seems to work - if I put an locomotive in an block, the former one gets a red signal.
Unfortunately the voltage won't drop, so the train simply runs trough.
I meassured every possible voltage, everythings seems to be fine to me.
The problem occurs (to me) at the "U" coming out of the SSS.
 
I have no idea what else I can try anymore.
If you have any idea...   Smiley 
 
Thank you so much already,
Frank
 
PS: I've tried your proposal with the diode, but there wasn't any improvement...
  

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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #8 - 09.11.2018 om 19:17:44
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ok, two more things I found out: I have let Google translate the three parts of the topic "START-set met SSS aansluiten/testen" from Schipper.
1st he mentioned "pulsating current" for the trains. So far I am using a very simply transformer but just checked with an older Roco model, which supllies both DC and AC, but same result.
 
There was also another guy with a similar problem solved it by putting an diode between U and the track. i have just tried that to, but no solution...
 
Frank
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #9 - 09.11.2018 om 20:09:00
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Hello Frank,
 
You have put a good drawing on the site. A note, the transformer for the "STAB" is a DC transformer, but must be an AC transformer for proper operation. It must work for me like that.
 
Did you use one or two locomotives ?
If you use one locomotive, he always runs trough.
If you use only one locomotive you must put 12 volts of the "STAB" on one of the a, b or c inputs of the "SSS" print, the locomotive will probably stop. You can also try this by putting 2 locomotives on the rails. There will always be one locomotive running faster than the other. This will be stopped after a while by the "SSS" print.
 
Another try ?
 
Corné.
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #10 - 10.11.2018 om 14:24:55
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Hello,
 
due to the lack of an powerful DC transformer I asked my colleague (electronics professional), he meant that there is no problem to use an AC transformer (trafo). I meassured: I get 12 V DC as output, so i don't think that's the reason.
 
I am using two locos, but even one is blocking one part (indicating via LED), the second one doesn't stop. I also tried the trick with the cable from ++ to "a", once more the LED shows red, but the locos aren't stopping.
 
To me, it looks like "U" always gives the full voltage, no matter what. I have always about 9 V at the track. With oder without train power, even if I cut of the train trafo completely: 9 V at the track. As if there is a shortcut between "V" and "U" in the SSS. It's the same in all three blocks.
Even more confusing: without the train trafo, the locos doesn't run. If I add the train trafo, I still have 9V but now they are running!   O.O
 
So i am at the end, I have no idea what to try anymore.   Verdrietig
 
One thing left: what about the "pulsating voltage"? Could that be the problem?
 
I am grateful for any tips or hints or...   Smiley
Frank
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #11 - 10.11.2018 om 17:16:44
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Hello,
 
It is true that you always keep about 10 volts on the tracks even if you disconnect the train transformer. That is the tension of the "presence notification", but here the locomotive will not be allowed to run.
Would you please check of all components are soldered on the right way ? Because I'm confused as well.
Can you control the speed with the 5k potentiometer (Max. snelh.)(Rij) on the "SSS"?
 
The loc transformer must be a pulsating voltage. the best is a double positive pulsating voltage.
  

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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #12 - 10.11.2018 om 19:15:52
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... I have bought the finished sets so I didn't had to build the SSS by myself. Also, since the same error happens in all blocks, I don't think (or hope) that all SSS are broken.
 
The pontis also doesn't work - I can't change the speed in any of the blocks.
 
So my only hope is the pulsating voltage transformer. Both of mine doesn't work, hopefully my colleague can help (again), especially since there is no indication oder way to measure it (without Oszillograph), if your trafo is suitable...
 
Thanks for your great help,
Frank
 
 
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #13 - 10.11.2018 om 20:31:35
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Hello Frank,
 
I don't quite understand your story about the pulsating transformer but if you don't use a pulsating transformer for your trains, it doesn't work. 
The thyristor must always have a zero, otherwise he will continue to conduct and the loco will not stop.
 
An AC transformer is a pulsating transformer. If you place a diode in series here, you already have a pulsating DC transformer for your locos and than it works with a "SSS".
But place a bridge rectifier and you have a great power supply for your locos.
 
Greetings Corné.
  

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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #14 - 11.11.2018 om 17:32:41
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Treurig  Besluiteloos  Huilen
 
now I am more lost than lost   O.O
 
I removed the train trafos and wired everything according to your new plan.
 
Unfortunately I get exact the same situation as before: both locos are detected (regarding to the status LED) in their block, but they do not stop. I also cannot control the speed via the pots.
Everything happens similar in all three blocks.
 
Since this version is also not working, I assume, that the transformers are not my problem!?
 
Now I really have no idea anymore, only defect SSS, but it is very unlikely...
 
Frank
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #15 - 11.11.2018 om 23:13:40
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Also I can not believe that there are 3 "SSS" defects.
I don't know what's wrong.
 
Try this one.
Use one "SSS" and another loco.
and try to contol the loco with the potentiometer 5k
 
If you still have the same problems, it only can be the transformer !!?
Can you describe exactly the type of transformers you use ?
 
Corné.
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #16 - 13.11.2018 om 18:12:06
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It works!  Smiley
Finally, I am soo relieved.
 
I started a new track circle to test the SSS, as you recommended. They worked (as expected), I could change the speed with the pots.
Then I put everything back together again and suddenly it works. Don't ask me, I haven't changed anything!  Smiley
 
Anyway, it's the result, what counts. Right now i am very happy - and can work on the next steps.   Grijns
 
Thank you so much for your help, I could have never done it without you. I hope the xmas guy will bring you tons of presents this year, you deserve them all!
 
 
I know, I tortured your long enough and abused your kindness over limit, but please help me one final time with two more question:
 
1. What's the difference between the connections a, b and c? I can't find any explanation in the manual.
 
2. Next step is to include a station model STP. At page 12 of document one ("components"), the wiring diagram is shown in the lower half.
The minus pole from the train trafo seems to be connected to the plus pole of the tracks out of the STP block (in the upper part of the drawing) - that's just a mistake?
 
Ok, that's it from my side - I can't thank you enough for your great help.
 
Have a great week,
Frank
  
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Re: lost while wiring
Reageer #17 - 15.11.2018 om 20:13:20
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Hello Frank,
 
I am very happy for you, that it finally works.
I have helped you with pleasure.
 
About the a, b, c, there is no difference. You can use whatever you want. Can just be mixed up.
 
About the "STP", you are absolutely right, I have not noticed it before. The minus pole, in the upper part, must be connected to the other pole of the track on the wiring diagram.
 
I wish you a lot of success with your hobby.
 
Corné.
  
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